Dirty John.

Hello everyone and welcome to this week’s Wives & Knives. We hope you are all keeping safe & well out there.

So this week we had our sleepover! I think you can tell in (in my voice at least) that I have had a glass of wine or two 😊 we really should have heeded our own advice and recorded the first episode before alcohol. Thankfully, Dani is taking the lead on this case and it is a super exciting case.

I visited the Delph the other day, had a lovely coffee and toastie at the café there and an equally lovely catch up with my friend whilst I watched another friend swim around a very cold lake. Met a chap who told me a lovely story about a disabled duck, we are now following Quackers the disabled duck on Instagram and I suggest you all do too. There’s a kids book in the works called Quackers and the feather fairies, I tried to order it that night, but it isn’t available as yet. I’ve linked the delightful little duck story in the notes.

Dani too has ventured out and enjoyed a lovely trip and café visit with her future Husband and her Dog.

Lets get into the case.

(By Dani)

Today I’m going to tell you the tale of Dirty John and how he met his death when his stepdaughter, Terra Newell, stabbed him 13 times. This is a little different for us as it’s not a case where I feel particularly bad about what happened and if anything, calling John Meehan a victim is in my eyes inaccurate considering the events that led up to that day. This is a case I’ve been wanting to cover for ages, and it’s one that Kelly isn’t particularly well versed in so I hope I can do the story justice.

Yes, this is all you. So I am very excited to sit back and listen. I am vaguely aware of the case and I know there is a Netflix series of the same name which I believe is excellent and quite true to the actual story.

It was the TV show that first caught my interest I feel that everyone knows of someone who is a bit of a ‘Dirty John’, and it was this uneasy sense of the familiar that led me to look into the origins of the Netflix drama.

The TV show was based on the Dirty John podcast by Wondery, and the podcast was based on a Book by Christopher Goffard. When the show took off a documentary appeared on Netflix although I can’t find it at the moment. There's so much reading and watching that you can do on this case and I am by no means an expert but I’m going to try and tell the story of John Meehan in chronological order because the story of John didn’t start when he met Debra Newall and maybe by looking at his past, we can see how it led to his death and it gives context to some of the decisions that came from the complex individuals in this case.

John was born 3rd February 1959 to mother Dorothy and Father William, he had 2 sisters Karen and Donna. William ran the Diamond Wheel Casino in San Jose and was a true role model to his son – in the worst way possible. He taught his son to lie and steal and at a young age he embroiled his son in cons in order to win legal settlements. John was praised for his participation in these acts by his otherwise cold father. When John was bullied at school his father told him to fight or hurt someone that they cared about, these kinds of teachings started at a very early age.

and that’s obviously going to impact how he develops as a person and his morals right?

Yeah, there's actually a good re-enactment in one of the documentaries I watched, it shows how John and would jump out in front of moving cars so that he could sue them, and his father would be watching proud of his sons' actions.

His sister Karen spoke on the Dirty John podcast stating that “He was taught to manipulate at a very early age...That's the fault of my parents, especially my dad.”

This early introduction to criminal activity led John to start dealing cocaine and gaining a bit of a reputation from a young age. At around the same time his parents separated, and his mother moved out, his father became more violent, and John began to hate both of his parents. John was athletic and attractive, and he had learnt how to use his outward appearance to his advantage. Whilst at university he was known as a womanizer and was given the nickname dirty John.

I just want to point out that whilst John’s upbringing seems to be mega shitty, he had 2 sisters who turned out to live normal lives, as good people so I’m not trying to excuse his choices at all.

so from that I’m taking that his sisters had a different upbringing in terms of their father, He didn’t make them do fake insurance claims nor abused them like he did John?

No.

John idolised James Bond, even having a personalised 007 number plate made and wanted to emulate the fictional character, he wanted to be above the law but as we know that’s not how the real-world works.

By his teens he was charismatic and athletic he saw himself above everyone else, a true narcissist; but he was also lacking in common sense and he wasn’t a hard worker.

He failed Law school and made a living out of conning people and corporations as well as dabbling in and dealing drugs, considering this criminal lifestyle he manages to stay mostly under the radar.

In 1990 John meets Tonia Sells while out at a bar, she is a nurse and 6 years younger than John, although he lies about his age when they meet. The couple soon married and had 2 children, John told Tonia that his parents where drug addicts, and he didn’t want them in their life.

John was secretive and kept things to himself but for the most part their marriage was uneventful, he was a good dad and decent husband.

During their time together Tonia supported John financially, paying for him to go to medical school, he became a nurse anaesthetist like she was. but after 10 years of marriage John told Tonia that he wanted a divorce.

Shocked by this, Tonia tracked down John’s mother and found out that he had lied about his age, full name and that he had a litany of drugs charges against him in California. Tonia then searched the house that she shared with John in Ohio and found a large stash of drugs and she went Straight to the police.

Good on her! I mean ten years together; imagine being with someone for that length of time and then finding out you didn’t know them at all. I feel for her.

Tonia’s revelations sparked an investigation into John but that wasn’t the only investigation going on, there had been reports of John brining a gun into the hospital that he worked at, and reports of him stealing medication that he should have been giving to patients!

John is eventually stripped of his nursing licence in 2002 when a loaded gun and 45 empty containers of stolen prescription medication are found after a search of his house. John pleads guilty but then goes on the run. He actually manages to evade capture until 2 months later. He is found in a Michigan hotel room unconscious and surrounded by drugs. He was captured and sentenced to 6 years, but he only ended up serving 17 months.

When he was released, his sister, Donna decided to help him get back on his feet. In 2004 Donna got John a car, covered his child support and got him a credit card to give him a hand getting back on the straight and narrow.

It seems like she really cared about him and wanted him to do well. She did everything she could to help him, she made sure he had a comfortable place to stay by letting him stay in her RV – just an aside, as a British person I didn’t know what an RV was – RV stands for recreational vehicle, over here we’d call it a fancy motorhome.

You would think that John would be grateful for his sisters help but soon John turned on her. He took legal action out against her claiming that the RV he was living in was his own and that she was trying to take it off him, He lost – obviously - but this changed the way Donna thought about her brother, which is a shame because up until then she had truly cared for him.

She has since come out to say that she suspects that John may have killed their father for inheritance money, you see their farther had been ill and was ‘dying’ but very slowly; yet he passed away when only John was in the room.

Wow. That’s a lot to unpack. So he’s a con man, a drug addict, potentially a murderer? He’s very manipulative around woman, did he cheat on his ex-wife?

Yes, he did, and he even goes on to threaten her. Reportedly in 2002 trying to find someone to kill her.

doesn’t like to be bested by women.

definitely not.

This leads to a quieter part of Johns life although it’s likely he was just flying under the radar again because by 2014 he pleaded guilty to stalking a woman from Laguna beach. He had met her when she was recovering from a brain injury and they dated for a while until she because uncomfortable and suspicious of his behaviour. After they split, he sent her a barrage of threatening messages and even sent intimate photos to her family. I feel that kind of behaviour says a lot about who he is as a person and the way he seems unable to have a relationship, he just uses people and when they fight back, he tries to destroy them, to me this feels incredibly narcissistic but like I said at the beginning its these traits that I have experience in with other people and that feeling of being sucked in – even if only momentarily – by them that has hooked me on this case.

of course and you can’t judge these women because whilst we might sit here and say I wouldn’t have been sucked in by that, when you are in the moment and they are so convincing, you can be easily fooled. I think most can relate to this extreme gas lighting and manipulation, it’s good to be aware.

It’s like John cannan in the Suzy Lamplugh case– maybe it’s a John thing? No. only joking.

After a brief stint in prison for violating a restraining order this week’s John is released on October 8th, 2014 and just 2 days later, he meets Debra Newall on a dating website for the over 50s.

Now I have to tell you about Debra, Debra Newall was an incredibly wealthy and successful interior designer in her late 50’s. She was attractive, very much so, but she had failed marriages that had dented her self-esteem. She was – she admits - looking for romance and was instantly attracted to John.

He introduced himself to her as a doctor, of course this was lies, only 2 days out of prison when he met her, he was homeless and turned up to the date looking a bit scruffy in a pair of scrubs, but he was charming and funny and obviously interested in Debra.

Debra had 4 children all of which she was close to, two of which feature heavily in the following events. Terra and Jacquelyn Newall.

Debra had been brought up in a Christian home and attended church regularly and after the murder of her sister, she had strong opinions on gun laws.

Hold up! what happened to her sister?

In 1984 her older sister Cindi was shot but her own husband, Billy Vickers.

What?

The couple were on the verge of separation and Billy shot Cindi then himself at close range. Cindi sadly died but he survived, he actually served less than 3 years for voluntary manslaughter and was released in 1986.

One of the reasons that he got such a light sentence was because of Debra's mother. She openly forgave the murder of her daughter, she said it was the Christian thing to do and that she could find it in her heart to forgive him. Debra didn’t feel the same way as her mother, and this led to her feeling guilty.

But back to Debra and her first meeting with John. Like I said she was instantly attracted to the wonderful John Meehan who told her he'd served as an anaesthesiologist in Iraq and spent a year with Doctors Without Borders and even though there where some odd things about him, his lack of money and limited wardrobe of pretty much only his scrubs; it was a classic case of seeing what you want to see.

I can relate to this I think everyone has had a relationship like this, or seen a loved one in this situation? and if you have seen someone in this situation you will know how difficult it is to change someone's mind.

This is the situation that her daughters found themselves in, the more they insisted that John was a bad guy the more he insisted they were spoilt and didn’t want to see their mother happy.

This theme of John driving a wedge between Debra and her daughters happened over a few months and started early in the relationship – this is one of those classic red flags, right?

Yeah, it would be for me.

Debra bought a property on the beach which John moved in to, this was super-fast we are talking a couple of weeks. Debra was keen to keep this from her daughters as she knew they wouldn’t approve however when Terra came to stay John made no efforts to hide his possessions and a row broke out between Terra and John. He flew into a rage, scaring Terra and causing a row that he would then twist to his own advantage.

Debra, on the advice of John began seeing a therapist about her relationship with her children, he convinced her that they were too close and too dependent on their mother. The therapist – obviously only being privy to one side of the story - encouraged her to set boundaries which in turn only encouraged John to push his own narrative.

So after just 2 months of dating, but already living together, Debra had to take a work trip to Las Vegas and John offered to accompany her, during the trip he suggested they get married. It wasn’t the first time he had mentioned this and to a large extent Debra had brushed him off, but she was hugely flattered by this handsome man's infatuation with her. Swept up on the impulsiveness of it all they got married at a courthouse with no guests.

Wow that’s fast, sums up his level of control over her.

Definitely. there's a text exchange often quoted where Debra text John saying, “You are the real thing”. And he replied saying “Best thing that will ever happen to you” I think that encapsulated the role he liked to play, he liked to be his victims everything and they would feel indebted to him, it’s coercive control.

Indeed. Debra kept the wedding a secret from her family, Christmas was coming up and they had all planned to spend the holiday at her eldest daughter's house in Orange County.

Is this Jacquelyn?

No her eldest is Nicole, Jacquelyn is in the middle and Terra is the youngest. Jacquelyn is the most outspoken and confident of Debra’s daughters and had already refused to go to on the family trip as planned because she couldn’t stand the thought of spending the holidays with John.

Terra however had agreed to go despite still being shaken by the way John had shouted at her weeks before. She wanted to spend time with her nieces and nephews. Terra even started to attend therapy with her mother where they discussed how her, and John could build a relationship however it was ultimately decided they should just stay out of each other's way. So, the holiday happened, and the family gathered but when it came down to it Terra was so uncomfortable being around John that she ended up crying in the bathroom. Terra went back home to Las Vegas, not speaking to her mother.

No one on that trip warmed to John but he seemed not to care at all. From then on, he began to try and isolate Debra more and more. Jacquelyn who hadn't attended the Christmas celebrations had spent a lot of her time thinking about John. She had noticed how his fingernails where often dirty and how the scrubs that he seemed to wear for almost every occasion where tatty at the bottoms.

Scrubs aren’t supposed to even be worn out of the hospital, not in the Uk anyway. Do you know I had this conversation with G the other day because I have a big issue with this, Scrubs are worn by certain people with certain roles? It’s unusual for someone say in an administrative role to wear scrubs right, unless say you spilt coffee all over yourself you know. So there’s his person that we both know who I have an issue with – I’ve told you about them before – and the other day this person was wearing scrubs, he has no reason to wear scrubs, yet they frequently wear them. And I’m like why?

And do you know why they do it…. Because it elevates you to a position of power. You automatically think that’s a surgeon. And he and others like him would rather be seen as a ‘surgeon’ or a ‘doctor’ because without your scrubs no one would give you a second glance.

Ha, yep. Yeah, it’s odd with the scrubs though because that’s not what a doctor wears on the regular about town and this made Jacquelyn suspicious; she started to suspect he wasn’t a real doctor at all.

She managed to stick a magnetic tracker to her mum's car, a Tessler, that John had been driving. With it she could track where he was going in the day and although what she found out wasn’t damming it also didn’t stop her worrying, John seemed to be traveling all over with little pattern, most often frequenting fast food places, doctors' offices, and Tessler charging points.

Jacquelyn didn’t know but her mum was also wondering what her husband was doing whilst she was at work especially when she came home to find he was still in bed, on that occasion she had asked him, and he explained that a patient had failed a pre op test and the surgery had been cancelled. She decided not to press him any further on the matter as she didn’t want to aggravate him – she knew he had a temper. Although it wasn’t the only thing she wondered about.

John had told her that he had been in a helicopter crash in the middle east, he had spent time in the desert and had to kill five or six times, he had to inject himself daily for his kidneys and take pills for his back. He even said he was a blood relation of, and notorious mafia hit man. On Sunday after church Debra returned home to find a woman in her house. The woman seemed distressed and a little out of it, John pinned the woman to the counter and the police were called. Debra remembered something that John said to the woman that inferred he may have known her – this made Debra uneasy but rather than question the ever-erratic John she tried to forget about it. John however insisted that this incident was a wakeup call, and that Debra should get increased security in her beach front apartment and also her place of work. He got cameras installed that meant he could see Debra where every she was.

I’m not victim blaming here but Debra does seem particularly gullible here, like there’s too many things to just brush off and be like…. okay sweetheart, carry on.

Yeah, I think it's a complex situation she was longing for some kind of fairy tale romance and it’s said that at 59 she was worried she wouldn’t find it. She has been married three times before. Also, John had a few good qualities that she hung on to. He was protective of her in a way she hadn't experienced in long time. He was helpful around the house running errands for her in the day when he was not working. He could make her laugh and he always showered her with compliments. Also, Debra had made a commitment to this man and to Debra that meant a lot. Personally, I reckon she had invested so much so fast that LEAVING WOULD BE ADMITTING HOW WRONG SHE HAD BEEN.

Yeah, but for me those qualities could be paid for, she could have a male butler or companion. Didn’t she ever question why he had no money or clothes?

Debra didn’t need his money she had plenty of her own and I think again it was just another thing she was willing to overlook.

That’s sad. And I wonder if her upbringing impacted on that? She’s not daft why does she feel so unworthy?

yeah. Especially because Debra's daughters had made their opinions on John pretty clear. Debra was also super close to her nephew Shad. When his mum had been killed Debra became like a second mum to him and they were still just as close in 2014 when Shad was in his 40s with 3 daughters of his own. Shad had heard that no one liked John, but he was willing to give him a chance.

He made a point of spending time with his aunt and John and found that lots of things he said didn’t make sense, John had a sick sense of humour and Shad grew suspicious and increasingly uneasy around him.

During this time Jacquelyn had hired a private investigator to look into John and by the time the preliminary report was in, she was happy to share all the details with Shad.

Firstly, they found out that John wasn’t a doctor although he did have a nursing licence from many years ago. He had several addresses linked to his name one being a trailer park and the last one being orange county Jail.

Shad didn’t know the legitimacy of this investigators findings and wanted to look into it further, but he also wanted to warn his aunt. He called her and asked her to be careful, he said he didn’t want to lose her, he could tell she wasn’t taking him seriously. He then said, “what if I could tell you, he wasn't and anaesthesiologist and that he had been in prison” to which his aunt snapped “I wouldn’t care because I love him.”

Fuckin hell Debra! I really feel for her family.

After this conversation with Shad, Debra goes to the one man she believes she can depend on, John.

Knowing what Shad has said, and what he knows about him makes Shad his enemy. John sends a barrage of abusive texts to Shad and they ended up arguing. Shad said that he hoped his aunt would dump him soon and that is when John revealed that they were already married. He was vicious and nasty, he threatened Shads' daughters and girlfriend, understandably Shad was scared.

At this time something started to get through to Debra and she became more and more suspicious of the man she was living with. One day a letter came from County jail addressed to John and she decided to open it. When she did, he burst through the door having watched her on the security cameras – he was livid and shouted at her for invading his privacy. He claimed the letter was from someone he was helping, he tried to make her feel awful for doubting him.

This event spurred Debra to try and find out more about him and whilst he was out, she began to search through his things. It turns out that John wasn’t very good at covering his tracks and she soon discovered for herself that he was in fact not a doctor, he was a former nurse. One who had become addicted to prescription painkillers and lost his job, he was a con man.

Court records showed he had been in prison whilst he had told her he had been working for doctors without borders. He had seduced and terrorised multiple women finding them on dating sites just like the one she had met him on less than a year before. He had an allegation of rape against his name. Police reports detailed how he had stolen money from women using coercion and control. Three women had restraining orders against her husband and at least 3 more had requested them. These women spoke of violence, threats to kill, stalking and bribery using indecent images that John had taken.

It was then when it first dawned on Debra that she could be killed just like her sister. She contacted a lawyer.

So, the lawyer tells her to cut John out of her will which she does right away. Luckily, timing was on her side because John was due a back operation and because of minor complications, he had to check himself in to Hospital meaning he was incapacitated for a few days.

Her family rallied round to help her pack; she didn’t care about leaving the beach house that she had paid a yearlong lease on, she just knew she had to escape.

Whilst packing, her family found papers to do with guns, bank routing numbers and other suspicious codes and names. Her family had also found a forum called datingpsychos.com which had pages devoted to John Meehan of women warning others off him, speaking of violence, stolen money, and emotional trauma after dating John.

As soon as John found out that Debra had left him, he turned on her, calling her ugly and evil and threatening her with his supposed long-lost mob relatives. He wanted half of her money. “divide up the stuff and I will leave, your choice” he said.

By that time, it was late March 2015 and Debra had compiled quite a substantial case against her husband she had even found out that he was nick named dirty John in university.

Then suddenly, without explanation his tone changed. He started once again telling her he loved her, reminding her of how happy he had made her, he said he needed her, and that she needed him. He said he could explain.

The private investigator that Debra had hired was concerned about her welfare and they told Debra to wear a wig, change hotels every few days, be careful of her surroundings – it was clear that they saw John as a very real threat to her life.

Debra did this but she also started to soften – she wanted explanations and the weight of her religious upbringing was on her mind, when she had married him, she had said for better for worse. John pleaded they meet up and she agreed.

He came up with a load of excuses and explanations he said he hid his criminal record because he was ashamed and just wanted her to give him a chance. He pretended to be a doctor because he wanted to impress her. He said he kept the large QTY of drugs because he was suicidal, he said he had multiple sclerosis and sometimes he wanted a way out. He said the cruel text messages where a result of the strong drugs he was on after his back operation he said they messed with his mental state. The stalking and restraining orders where other John Meehan’s, not him at all. The arrest for drugs charges where all a set up by his bitter ex so that she would be able to have custody of his children and that everything else was just made up. He didn’t know why anyone would call him dirty John. He was the victim and so vulnerable, and Debra was the only one he loved and trusted that is what he told her.

John played on her faith by reminding her of the vows she too he had MS, how could she abandon him in a time of sickness.

“I love you more than the entire world” he begged.

Debra told John that she had made a will that left all her money to her children and it would be remaining that way, but John insisted it wasn’t about money he loved her and would love her even if they were poor. Debra’s resolve began to soften. She didn’t tell anyone, but she began seeing John in secret.

that’s so ridiculously dangerous....

she even found them another property so they could try again. John went back to treating Debra like his world, he made her feel loved and beautiful. In the book Dirty John by Christopher Goffard Debra's up bringing it explored in great detail and it’s clear that the ability to forgive was instilled in Debra, she was taught that none of god’s children where irredeemable.

That’s fucking ridiculous. I’m not religion bashing but that is just fucking stupidity. Yes, teach forgiveness but not at the detriment to yourself, shoot my daughter it’s totally fine, she probably pissed you off a bit, as long as you’re sorry. How about DO NO HARM BUT TAKE NO SHIT!!!

Kelly’s mad!

But you know John was playing the part of a reformed man so well. He was attending church and sobbing during the services. Repenting his sins and for a few weeks he was perfect.

Anyway, when Debra’s children realised, they were together they were, as you can imagine, worried and angry. Only Terra would keep in regular contact at that point and when Terra and her boyfriend split up her and her Dog, Cash, moved back to California. Terra, like her mother wanted to see the good in people but she was still scared of John, the rest of the family including Debra’s mother despised him.

Debra missed her family a lot plus she still had doubts about John. He kept getting sick and having to spend time in hospital, but he was never clear as to why, she suspected drugs. During this time John had convinced Debra to hire a lawyer to sue all those who had wronged him in the past!

I’d like to see that list.

The lawyer is great he’s called John Dzialo and he instantly sensed Debra was in danger, he could see how controlled she was, and he knew John’s history of extortion, stalking and harassment. During their initial consultation it was discussed that Debra wanted to fix her fractured relationship with her family and John Dzialo suggested a post-nup which would mean if they were to divorce John would not get any of Debra’s money- He said this would be beneficial for her relationship with her family but also for proving John’s intentions. When this was suggested, John did not say anything, but the attorney describes Johns eyes as going Black and he went on to describe John Meehan as “the scariest man I have met in my 70 years”.

Dzialo went on to say he couldn't represent John and there was no basis for a lawsuit – to this John started screaming. Dzialo even went on to reach out to Debra but John threatened him saying if you ever contact my wife again you will regret it. John continued to play the doting husband being perfect around the house, buying her flowers and declaring his love for her at every opportunity. Debra was so desperate to make it work; she didn’t want to have another failed marriage, but she couldn’t stop feeling scared of John and she realised that she didn’t trust him anymore. She knew that leaving him for good wouldn’t be easy, so she decided to bide her time. John must have been able to sense the shift in her because he would say “I know you're going to leave me.”

It was soon December 2015 there 1 year anniversary, and John wrote her a 2-page love letter, a large extract of which can be found in the book by Christopher Goffard, but I’ll read you a few lines.

“One year and forever means forever”.

“I love you I love the way you smell and the way you drift off to la-la land when I am talking to you”.

“Making love to you is about as close to a religious experience that I have ever had” and it goes on and on.

But secretly Debra was hiding money, giving money to her children, and rebuilding the relationships she had with them. When John found out Debra had been seeing Jacquelyn he started sending Jacquelyn texts saying that her mother wanted her dead, even going as far as suggesting ways in which she should kill herself.

In March 2016 1 year and 3 months into their marriage Debra left John for good. She took as much of her money and assets as she could and as much of her belongings as she could manage. When he was out, she hurried back to her house making sure to put tape over the cameras he had installed whilst she packed up more of her things. she got a lawyer and filed for divorce.

Now John became so much worse than she had experienced before, he threatened her and her children he shared naked photos of her on her nephews Facebook page. He accused her of assaulting him, he followed her and her family. He sent her messages saying he was watching her. He demanded money. His texts where cruel and taunting he made her feel worthless. He told her she was a bad Christian, an old bag, a bitch, he threatened her clients and her business there was no area of her life he couldn’t touch.

Back living in a hotel and wearing a wig Debra had told her lawyer everything, they knew about John’s criminal history but as he was in another state and had never physically harmed Debra he was seen as low risk.

Then Debra did something that makes little sense, she visited John. He had gone quiet, he was sick, dying of cancer is what he told her. He looked awful and weak, and he begged her to try again. She said maybe although looking back she states she never meant it – she just didn’t know what to say. She didn’t visit him again.

That leads us to June 11th and Debra’s car, a Jaguar went missing from outside her work, when they looked on CCTV, they saw John appear out of some bushes and steal it. The car turned up just a few streets away, covered in gas and with fire damage. The police were informed but didn’t track him down Debra was ignoring his calls and texts. She was now living with Jacquelyn.

August 19th Terra was working at a dog kennels and groomers on Newport beach when she got a call from a man with a French accent. He was friendly and spoke to her like he knew her, she wondered if she had met him before, he was asking her to groom his dogs and through the conversation she disclosed her work schedule and booked him in for the following day.

That night Jacquelyn was coming home when she spotted John outside the apartment, luckily, she wasn't alone and when John realised that Jacquelyn and her friend had seen him he sped off. Jacquelyn was panicked and she was convinced that John was there to kill either herself or her mother. Debra once again played down her daughters concerns maybe it wasn’t John?!

But Jacquelyn couldn’t be calmed and her and her friend drove to Terra s’ apartment to check he hadn't gone there. Early the next morning 6am I believe, Jacquelyn sent a text to Terra warning her that John was in the area and described the car she had seen him in. However, it would turn out that in the low light and panic which she had seen him in the evening before, she had misremembered some of the details about the car.

Later that day Terra went to work, she loved dogs and always had, and the job was perfect for her as she could take her own dog with her. The last client of the day, the man with the French accent didn’t show up so she left a little early and drove back to her apartment meanwhile John had taken the number plates off his grey rental car, he had packed a vial of injectable testosterone, duct tape, a set of knives, cable ties and his passport.

Fucking hell, that does not scream low risk to me.

Terra pulled into the parking lot, she was going to a concert with a friend that night and was eager to get inside to go and get ready, as she got out of her car, she didn’t notice the unfamiliar car parked nearby or the man bent over the boot/ trunk. John was 6 foot 2 and although he had recently lost a lot of weight, he would still easily overpower Terra who was only a little over 5 foot. Plus John had a long-bladed knife disguised in a Del taco bag

Within a split second, he pounces shouting “do you remember me?” She screams. And instantly tries to fight him off, Cash Terra's dog who was in the back of her car attacks Johns ankles and John starts stabbing at Terra – this is the moment she realises he has a knife – imagine how scary that must be.

She shows so much strength though and whilst wrestling against him falls to the floor.

Now just to set the scene this wasn't a quiet area people had heard the scream and were looking over balconies, a 14-year-old girl alerted her mother who contacted the police.

Terra who was wearing strong boots and she kicked up at John who was on top of her stabbing downwards and she managed to kick the blade out of his hand, it landed on the floor to her right. She grabbed the knife and without a second thought began defending herself, she lunged the knife up towards him, stabbing him repeatedly in his arm, his chest, Shoulder, and forearm, before landing what she calls ‘the kill shot’ stabbing him directly through his eye and into his brain.

Terra was hysterical and crawled away from John and that young 14-year-old girl actually ran down and started comforting her. Before the police or ambulance service arrive, Terra called Debra and said, “I’m sorry I think I’ve killed your husband”.

John and Terra where both rushed to hospital. John didn’t have a pulse initially but was revived by CPR and put on life support. His sisters were informed, although Debra was his next of kin it was his sister who decided to take him off life support and he died 4 days later.

There was no memorial service after his death and no one wanted to press charges, it was self-defence and lots of people could testify to this. Terra talked of watching her favourite show The Walking Dead and how you had to kill or be killed and likened it to how she had fought off John, she still felt guilty however, but Donna John's sister even visited her in the aftermath and told her “You did a good thing”.

Terra suffered anxiety and panic attacks but sought help through therapy. She has since retrained as a trauma recovery life coach and writes a blog about travel, dogs, and PTSD. She also hosts her own podcast called time out with Terra which explores, wellbeing, self-care, and relationships.

Debra still struggles with guilt for everything she put her family through, but she is close with her children once again.

In the months after John had died, she was finding drugs that had belonged to him. she also found evidence on his computer that he was talking to hundreds of other women – he was never loyal to her.

She struggled to realign her memories of times she thought the love was real and this really gets to me because I can think of situations where I look back and see how fucking wrong, I was and its heart breaking but that’s on a tiny scale compared to what Debra believed.

Apart from reconnecting with her family, Debra spent a lot of time educating other women about the dangers of abusive situations.

Jacquelyn, Shad and the rest of her family have kept their privacy but continue to support Debra and Terra.

So that’s the story of Dirty John....

and what a story. Thank fuck for Jacquelyn & Terra. It’s easy to cast judgement when you aren’t in the situation but Debra, how many red flags do you want love. I know we’ve said this before I’m not sure which episode it was but if your family have an issue with a partner, hear them out. and if they have official documents backing up their concerns then definitely listen to them. One thing I think we should also highlight here is that Debra is minted, good for her, but think about the people who are stuck in similar situations who don’t have the means to rent hotel rooms on the regular, don’t have a family to help them or fancy lawyers. The ones that Literally can’t get away or the ones that don’t manage to get away at all.

yes absolutely, we’ll put some links to some sources of help as well as our source material in the usual places. If you are in a similar situation then reach out.

Definitely. Well thank you Dani, I really enjoyed that case. We’ll be back next week with another mini for you.

Yes, but until then stay safe & get in touch on the socials. Bye.

Bye.

D&K xxx

Please remember that we mean no disrespect to anyone mentioned in this episode, or across any of the wives and knives platforms.

We have an interest in true crime and related topics and whilst we may offer our own personal views on certain items it is meant to be educational and as light-hearted as possible. The information we present is collated from research gathered from the internet and we reference and credit our sources wherever possible.

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Sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf6YwPIWP14

https://thecinemaholic.com/where-is-debra-newell-now/

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/12/220059/dirty-John-meehan-da sister-real-con-artist-family

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/film-tv/a25372275/dirty-John-true-story-timeline/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOC89gT4LIA

https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80241855

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8300034/

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/02/26/John-meehans-ex-wives-tonia-bales-debra-newell-dirty-John-dirty-truth/

https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/authors/Christopher-Goffard/151726787

https://www.bustle.com/p/the-new-dirty-john-book-by-host-christopher-goffar contains-so-many-fascinating-true-crime-stories-13134176.

https://alisonwinward.wordpress.com/2021/02/23/one-man-an his-duck/amp/